I don't think polling every little thing is the way to go though

You need to discuss your polling topics and get the actual poll suggestions whittled down to binary type options

This vs. That
Red vs. Blue
Etc.

If you just start polling every little thing. It leaves things vague and people aren't sure where they want to vote.

Example:

Poll - Flags or no Flags

Well maybe I want flags, but only a certain way. Are we talking static flags? Flags you carry around? How many flags?

Polling all of those options is bound to lead to a division that shows no majority.

So once again, my suggestion would be, start a conversation about a change or two in its own thread. Get the exact proposal you want agreed upon in a way. Then ask Champ and the Head Staff if it can be polled and voted upon when players know exactly what they're voting on.

I like how no one actually responded to r except that terrible response, which would end the argument. You want to change the main design of this league? Okay, then tell us what is the problem USL has and what is the cause. Why is changing USL towards flagging the optimal solution?

Why would you want to make a huge change like this and think it's a good idea when making tuning changes towards the classes was consider a huge no no that mecca was going to retire if marine got nerfed. So changing the numbers toward a class is consider too drastic that apollo refused to participate in the test zone but flagging is okay. SL has failed for a reason. SL draft seasons fails miserably for a reason. If this idea is something you believe is popular, this is not a USL problem. This is something you can create as an alternative to USL. You should make your own league that caters towards the failed SL instead. This should not involve USL at all.

The dumbest thing I've heard is polling for flags when we have zero basis on how people will like to play that zone but playing a test zone of changes for classes was taboo. Just stop. Don't need to poll just because we have support. Argue for it. I don't think an idea has merit if Tweedledum and Tweedledee think it should be polled.

<b>The dumbest thing I've heard is polling for flags when we have zero basis on how people will like to play that zone but playing a test zone of changes for classes was taboo. Just stop</b>

And then said players got mad when I told them I wouldn't consider their opinion on changes because they refused to actually test shit in a match setting. But only looked at pub or "spectating matches which so happened to be fwaming dwagons vs mean girls to determine the balance of the changes.

Said players than also sat in KR before anyone logged in to populate it so no one would actually go to the <b>TEST ZONE</b>

Then said players got mad again thinking that because the changes in test zone were in play there they were ultimately the final product.

People are dumb.

1) it has been argued multiple times, you can dig it up in past posts if you like

2) did not refuse to test class changes in the test zone

3) wouldn't be like SL

4) if you refuse to test it or be open to it, you're a hypocrite

Eric, the whole point is.. you had an option to have it implement it in and test it. You had a voice, other people refusing to test it doesn't mean anything. You yourself and a large number of the community got to test it to see it in work.

They can implement flags in, for us to test. Whether or not you want to be a part of it, wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But at least I know, and others who are wanting to try it out, will know or not if it's good. It's okay if you don't want things to change, you will still have a voice. It means something if you don't want to test it out, but for the others that do.. I believe they should be allowed to.

Also, I have no idea if it would work or not..honestly, but I am open to trying it out, and I believe others have voiced their desire to test it out. It could fail miserably or be really fun, nobody knows.

1) The flagging idea was to mitigate camping by rewarding teams to fight in a designated area. Nothing else was discussed to elaborate on it. This was an idea to help curb camping. An idea that wants to change the core design of USL to resolve camping lol. That's an extreme approach when there are better ideas to alleviate camping without making drastic changes to a successful league. Hopefully a solution that doesn't involve adjusting towards a league that failed horrendously including our little draft league SL.

2) Ask the previous admin. Ask the current admin. Ask hellspawn. You ducked test zone. I have no clue why you're even lying. You can ask slob your good friend.

3) Damn you sure proved me wrong. Can't even test a carbon copy of this zone but adding flags that will help end games by collecting them all sure sounds like SL.

4) LOL. I can't believe you're saying that. USL class changes ring a bell?

"other people refusing to test it doesn't mean anything"
"if you refuse to test it or be open to it, you're a hypocrite"
Do you know there is a subreddit where trump argues trump. I think apollo fits in that one as well.

"Also, I have no idea if it would work or not..honestly, but I am open to trying it out, and I believe others have voiced their desire to test it out. It could fail miserably or be really fun, nobody knows."
I would like to see that idea tested in your new league coming up. Hopefully USL will not clash with your league and both will thrive.

Unlike the majority of the population I actually test all changes in match based settings and then provide logical reasoning as to why things may or may not work based on objective data.

As I've said in the past and i'll reiterate here; the majority of the population will continue to base their opinions on subjective data because they will always be too afraid to try out change. The class changes that were in a <b>TEST ZONE</b> Was the biggest indication that I was correct.

And now the same people like you Apollo who refused to test out simple tweaks to classes want to revamp for flags and are willing to test that out? But then have the gaul to call others a hypocrite.

Let me explain it better in case you're having trouble understanding, maybe I wasn't clear.

It is hypocritical to call someone out for not testing something while refusing to do it yourself.

But if you actually don't want to test it, you don't have to. It doesn't mean anything for it to be tested and discussed. You'll still have a voice.

I didn't refuse to test out anything, just because you didn't see me scrim on it doesn't mean anything Eric, and then to refuse everyone who you don't see actually SB on it to give them a voice? Come on. It's probably good you stepped down, that is poor leadership.

If something is implemented in the test zone and you don't agree with it, you don't have to test it out if you don't want it. Just like my argument is, if you don't want to test out flags or ammo dumps or whatever in a test zone because you don't want to, you really don't have to. It's more so for the people who do want it.

I think you actually are having a tough time grasping this conversation. Neither me nor Eric have stated we won't be testing it. We are arguing your concept. We are trying to determine what situation has led to you deciding that adding flags will resolve your issue that you have with USL. You just keep reverberating the same thing over and over that we won't test this. We are literally calling out your idea. Instead of just saying "lets add this, oh it might fail horrendously but lets try it anyways" is the dumbest shit ever. How about making a thread arguing for the merits of flagging. Maybe ask hellspawn/Oct/Mizz nicely to make a zone USL with flags that envision your idea and test it for preseason. Right now the support I've seen for your idea have been "lets do this or let the league die". Very powerful support. Right there with lyric trying to delete cazzo forge.

"I didn't refuse to test out anything, just because you didn't see me scrim on it doesn't mean anything Eric"

You missed the point entirely when I said "testing the changes in a match base setting. So if you tested it by yourself or in pub you clearly knew how the changes would impact a match or how balanced they would be?

Please use logic

Sov do you ever contribute solutions or just refute ideas? Christ you're an idiot.

FD bunch of bullies

Sov - If you care that much about those arguments, you can dig up past threads where they have been argued. But great, if you're open to change and testing. Glad to hear it.

Eric - I have scrimmed mu with the changes, sorry you didn't see it. And I didn't realize I needed to spend multiple 30 minute games to figure out whether I liked something or not to still have a voice. The class changes didn't impact me or my squad and I really couldn't have cared less about them.. I don't think anyone on my squad did really.

This is what a good portion of suggestions are. Whimsical ideas that dont fit the reality of this game/community.

Theres always the Backs method to just whine and spam the admin on social media until you get your way.

"Sov do you ever contribute solutions or just refute ideas? Christ you're an idiot."
"Because people refuse to spread the talent, and its the same boring shit every season. let it die or change something. "
I don't think we need the input from a coke head who thinks we need some change or let the league die. Try again later. What solution? Right now mecca feels like the only one who has listed an issue and suggested what he feels like a solution. The other people are proposing ideas but not have suggested anything. Iceman keep on contributing, you're definintely helping apollo out. 100%.

Abbath/Emp - Make a thread so people can see your ideas instead of sifting through past forums post because they can't remember.
Apollo - Look at the past threads
*Facepalm

How about creating a new thread starting off with the issue stemming USL and what the cause is and how this proposed ideas of your is the solution. Right now, I don't think I see an issue that this coke head doesn't understand. I'm just trying to understand where apollo is coming from instead of getting these random responses that say "test it or not. dont care. poll it up. got support. #maga".

@sov

Not sure why you paraphrased me in that one or why you'd facepalm something I said.

I thought it would be stating the obvious to say people need to include the issues surrounding their suggested changes. I meant what you said in that last paragraph, I'll just clarify a bit more next time.

I prefer no static flags but if they're thrown up in a test zone, and people actually play, then I will test.

I don't give a shit what changes was just trying to spark a convo

I think you're confused abbath. I stated that abbath/emp advised people to create a new thread for these proposed ideas to be discussed. I then quoted apollo who stated to do the opposite what you both stated. Facepalm @ apollo.