I'll start it.

First suggestion to get ironed out and maybe polled:

Something I'd personally like to see is indeed a move to a smaller map. This would most likely require smaller lineups, 5v5? 6v6?, but not necessarily. It would depend on the size of the smaller map(s) ultimately.

I'd prefer smaller map(s) because it would ideally lead to more fighting and less running around.

Question is, do we have a map we can already use? Some precautions would need to be taken to ensure weaker teams didn't get base raped and stuck inside their dropship.

Smaller lineups and smaller rosters could potentially disperse some talent. Maybe add some squads to the league instead of the ~6 we got.

We might need more refs then though if we have more squads. Are players willing to step up and ref? Because we might need to have multiple matches at the same time if we have 8+ squads.

Thoughts?

Just a suggestion. Something I've been interested in exploring for a little bit now.

The amount of squads doesn't seem to be much of an issue when we get 6-7 every season. So smaller roster's seem moot especially when the seasons about to begin people ask to raise the cap space as everyone reaches the limit.

If anything I'd say Make a <b>HARD CAP</b> on roster such as 11 and not increase at all.

As for smaller map's it doesn't bother me but if we're talking about stupid shit like green v yellow that's been suggested in the past then that's a hard no from me. At least bring in a smaller map that takes some thought process of engaging the enemy.

As for the reffing issue I told champ id help out next season again. Hell I almost reffed this past sunday and would've had I been powered. Luckily champ logged on.

to be honest, i don't think smaller rosters require smaller maps. It would just Increase the # of squads. you can play 6v6 or 5v5 on the current maps imo.

Current maps seem big for 5v5 imo

Smaller rosters has always confused me though tbh

It seems weird having 14 players on a squad when most matches are only 8v8 or maybe even only 7v7

Seems like it often leads to several players sitting in spec. But then there's also a lot of occasions where I've seen squads struggle to show their 7 to 8 members.

Bring back NMLTL

5v5 matches. Go Go Go!

I would love to see 4v4 with rosters capped at 7 or 8.

The Bronze vs Diamond map (that is uploaded on my map) would be big enough. The benefit of smaller maps like that, is they are extremely easy to pump out. You could literally take the EC map, cut off north of mid, and put the colle base where the garage is. I don't really think Green v Yellow is good.

15 minute games would work, which would make reffing easier.

The biggest hurdle I see is if we do end up implementing this, are there enough people willing to play still. The inactivity this season was huge, and it looked to towards the end that only one squad could show their full lineup. I know it's possible, but I suppose it's up to the people. If every squad we had now split into two, there would be a lot more FF's this season as some squads barely managed to show.

that's also because of the weird holiday schedule.. no incentive to sign on

the first 3-4 weeks were busy AF almost every squad sbing multiple times per week

the general rule should be whatever the default match is (8v8 or 7v7) + half so 12 if we stick with 8v8 and 11 if we do 7v7. We're all busy you can't expect everyone to be available every week.

Smaller map/squads could be cool, I wouldn't go down to 4v4 though probably 5v5 1 med.

Could always do salary again ;)

15 min games, best of 3 would be cool

Inactivity died within week 3. I'm not sure who is spewing the idea that it just died towards the last few weeks.

For 6v6 it's a no. One, we don't have a need to increase the squad size at all because USL has been consistently getting 6-7 squads with a roster cap of 14-15. Like eric stated, smaller maps would probably be way worse because it's not USL. The stomps will get way worse because smaller maps mean less hiding and less tactics involved.

I think emp has got the right idea on looking at the pros/cons of 6v6. When eric stepped down as admin, we pretty much traded apollo as the go to ref until the last two weeks where the admin had to step in and ref majority of the matches. With additional games added, don't think USL staff will somehow increase, especially now that infinite the god has permanently moved towards subspace.

I think the best solution is to hard cap since most people are stating there reason towards a smaller map is to spread the talent around. Like I stated before, most of the time the roster has been hard cap at 11 but only increased by the very people who eventually get upset when the squads become stacked. The real issue is that squads are only recruiting players who are inactive, so they need to increase the cap to mitigate activity and potential no show.

4v4 @ 15 mins seems very different to what we have now.

I wouldn't be opposed to playing something like that, but that is a huge change from 8v8 @ 30 mins.

For something like 4v4 @ 15 mins, maybe there can be a separate league of some sort. Maybe Champion could expand the Dueling Ladder to include a 4v4 Ladder?

It just seems too different from standard USL to completely change the league in that direction.

6v6 with smaller maps and smaller rosters could potentially still keep this USL to an extent.

At least that's my 2 cents.

That's how I been feeling emp. A lot of these proposed ideas are way off what USL is about. These seem like new ideas that could be made into a new league. If there is that much support for these ideas, I have no clue why those individuals are not making a league with this or at least attempting to do an off-season with these ideas. These individuals rather force USL to use their resources to implement their ideas without doing any contribution whatsoever.

4v4 isn't a good idea for USL. I remember doing SL 2v2 in mid back in the day. I know there was a separate league for that so if people want small teams then perhaps a mini league is in order.

I like the current size of maps. Coming up with plays is the best part about USL. Using a small quadrant of of existing maps sounds meh; cant do much with that.

Honestly my opinion on smaller teams and smaller maps is that people want to simplify USL even more than what it is already. Lower the numbers? Less people to fight you for specific angles. Smaller maps? It becomes even more of a skill match up and less of a positioning battle.

But that's my 2cents.

Again Hard cap at 11 or even 10 no more raising it as the season gets close to starting and bingo. 7v7's

I agree that a Hard Cap would be a good solution, as long as it was communicated loudly and early so that everyone keeps that in mind during squad formation time.

It's capped to begin with and doesn't get raised until every squad is full/almost full usually later on during the season after the schedule has been set. Hard cap doesn't equal more squads imo, it just doesn't let players who haven't joined a squad at the beginning not play. But who knows, am I wrong?

USL has changed drastically to what it once was .. to deny change and simply say "go make a new league" isn't what USL is about. USL is a unified skirmish league of all the different skirmish zones, NML, SL, and MSL. I also don't see anyone forcing anything on the league itself, rather discussing how to improve the league and motivate players who are finding gameplay stale and thinking about leaving or have already left to come back.

Instead of tearing down untested ideas I would love to hear some constructive ideas on how to repopulate the game/league and keep evolving and changing without throwing attacks at individuals.

You're right it is capped to begin with but it ultimately always gets raised. And certain players who don't want to play with others will just wait that time period out to when it gets raised and join the stack.

If you force the hard cap and ensure the limit doesn't get raised then you may actually see different squads pop up.

But hypothetically wouldn't a player who wants to play, that wasn't waiting for it to get raised be punished by having to sit the season out. Happens every season. People are not on a squad, rosters are full so it gets raised so they can play. A lot of people would be sitting out every season if that were the case.

There is a difference. Hard cap is designed to not stack squad and try to spread talent. I think that is what most people would like to accomplish. I don't think I've heard anyone complain about wanting a 8+ squad season. When you look at the free agents after it's been wiped out, it should theoretically be enough to bring another squad, but doesn't work out because of leadership. Can't create additional squad if we lack leadership. In my opinion, we aren't really increasing the population of the game, yet we have continued to have at least 6 squads throughout each season. Don't think it's an issue to be addressed unless we get lower squads than 6, especially when we have excess free agents to bolster the 6 squads participating for USL.

Point 2 does not really bring much. You're pulling an octavian and now trying to argue the semantics now. USL is a team death match game period. USL has done well because it's simplistic. I can ask my squaddies but I'm pretty sure USL has been static in terms of game design for 30+ seasons. Not sure why it's now an issue.

"Instead of tearing down untested ideas I would love to hear some constructive ideas on how to repopulate the game/league and keep evolving and changing without throwing attacks at individuals"
The answer isn't USL. It's what oct/hs are doing in making sure there is some semblance of population early in the day. Apollo you're going back and forth. We are talking about how to improve USL, not increase the general population of the game. If you want to do that, go ask jovan or someone else on how to increase the overall population.

It also doesn't help that the person asking to for all these drastic changes literally shut down any class changes to the game to help generate interest to USL. Don't forget adding additional maps to the game, which should generate interest but was shut down to have the same boring maps people have played for over 30+ seasons.

USL is the population.

Cazzo Forge ain't USL. Go ask the creators of that map :)