Ever since I watched that one finals where teams were even and just ran around the map for 30min and did the same thing in OT I've been thinking that is horrible game play and a horrible spectator experience. Same with some of the matches this season where two teams are running around and/or not engaging. I would strongly suggest/recommend doing whatever you can to discourage that type of play style.

I think a mode like COD hardpoint solves this. For those who don't know it is an objective based game mode where there is a location you need to secure for points. Once you get to a certain point total you win. The location changes every minute (we could change this so it is more suitable for our purposes). There are respawns. If the other team is contesting a location, there are no points awarded during that time.

I think you would probably want maybe 3-5 different locations on each map that are more or less centrally located.

By shifting the location you force people to move and because it is objective based people have to gravitate towards the objective.

All that said, this would be a completely differently league.

There was a league like that called Skirmish League back in the day. with flags in areas of the map u had to capture and hold. Not sure why we stopped playing it but I think it just got stale over time from my poor memory.

It’s a bit more campy tho with the 3 death limit.

Anjro described my Fortnite map :)

I don't like the 3 death limit, if there is a death limit, it makes people more campy. I never played SL so I cannot comment on how similar it is to what I am suggesting. Did the capture points change over the course of the match or are they static locations? Are they all active at the same time?

There is a fortnite map like this?

In SL the maps were static. All 5 were active at same time. It’ll prolly be up in offseason. It’s very fun. But it is more campy, and there are trees.

There IS a Fortnite map like what you described, 5 locations and they each give points so the more you hold the quicker your team wins. I just haven’t finished it! That’s one of my favorite game modes.

Battle for Kliests Ridge was like that with static flags but you needed to capture all 5 or 6 for the win. Without vehicles it was pretty epic.

I think for larger player counts, rather than having one location active, we could have multiple active - but you would still want enough locations to change so you couldn't camp certain areas.

ex: map has 5 locations - 2 are active. then it swaps to 2 which are currently not active.

If there is a new mode, my preference is that they are not all active - that's conquest/domination which is a great mode in itself, but is more campy than what I am describing - which is also why I want unlimited respawn as well.

SL could be campy but you could just flag them and force them to an area

If i recall correctly SL was on the Outpost Delta map, it seems the condensed version is now the "PinkPurple" (if not that color code there is definitely a map that is very similar to SL) map that comes up in Minimaps. It was 8v8 limit only, generally more campy but there 3 deaths only and static flagging, think it was 5-6 flags. The flags didnt move and were in buildings. You can win by kills or flagging, i believe you had to hold the all the flags for 30 seconds? maybe it was less. If done right, there was a quick flagging strategy which worked but was rare. 30 minute match times. It became dry and stale because it was campy and sometimes teams just running around each other circling for flags, and trying to set up ambush spots and waiting, there was no camp timer to dissuade the camping and hiding. Alot of teams would end up baseraping the respawns, no base lines either. Eventually the population died off due to pay to play, stale play, and other leagues that the player base played in.

a re visioned SL league with different rules sets (camp timers, baselines etc) on the condensed map would be pretty fun i think, perhaps something to fiddle with in the offseason to see how the populace takes to it. Maybe even bring in more people to play the game.

found a youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVoH05H0gCY&list=PLMIMD-8yJExLdSBfvKtyn0fi0fV3DYJoG&index=16 that seems to show what the game play would look like back then.

I was going to add some more ideas to this thread but then I realized I would have to work on them.

What about PUBG-style loot crates (1 time vision reveal abilities, 1 time upgraded law, 1 time use super AOE medic heal, etc.) that spawn ONLY IF the kill count hasn't changed in 2+ minutes. Reveals the location to each team a minute in advance so both teams have opportunity to head towards it. Loot crate can be blown up/loot destroyed by explosives to deny the other team a reward, but promotes movement/action around the map still.

IDK, or we can argue about base lines for another 2 months while I twiddle my thumbs begging the league to help them with my limited time that I do have available to help USL.

You're not wrong, back in the day I was pretty much the only person that camped, and even then.. it was ambushes all throughout the map. Never outside of the dropship. There was a sense of shame brought down from the community that made other squads refuse to camp. In todays game that is all gone. It was made apparent when K Dude camped for 8 mins against Dark Slayers with tg bitching about how this game as evolved.

The fact of the matter is, if you're trying to win and be competitive, there is no reason to move around from an ideal position if you have the lead. Imagine if there was a million dollars on the line in a champ game played at the highest level... final score would be 1-0.

SL was more "campy" back in the day because people played differently in USL. In SL it was not ideal to sit in one spot as you risk getting out flagged and then you can add in the element of sniper one shotting meds to open up campy battles.

I mean SL was more campy primarily because of being specced after 3 deaths. Idk if there were any other specific reasons for it being campy.

always down for SL

Could SL have worked without the 3 deaths? Deathmatch with flags?

Also because 50% of the map was trees with vision on them, trees in USL don't have vision thankfully.

I think the fundamental way that squads play has evolved or maybe devolved in recent years depending on who you ask. Like Mark said, when you add the competitive aspect to any game or league players will inevitably gravitate to the playstyle that gives them the biggest competitive edge. Historically there were very few squads that adapted the 'camp' playstyle (Apoc, System Err0r) to name a couple but never to the extent that it is now. I think a few factors contributing to that shift is rule changes or lack or rules, constant map rotations where vision is different on every map, severely one sided map layouts and so on. I think competition is way different in the modern era, we all have bigger resolutions, we all record our games and break down how other squads play and squads are fairly even in terms of skill at the top so that's going to lead to a lot of posturing in matches waiting for the enemy to make a mistake. Personally I don't like the shift in the meta but at the same time I'm not going to hate on squads that utilize everything in their power that's going to get them the win, it is a competitive league at the end of the day. I'd love to just add an objective or something but we have to be very careful about how you go about implementing something like that while still retaining the fundamentals that make this league the league that has lasted for over 50 seasons. You guys remember how fast SL died when too many changes were implemented at once and the underlying league no longer felt like Skirmish League and players quickly lost interest, I'd like to avoid that.

I do think it has to do with this alot more than people realize. I played when nobody used voice chat, then everyone started using it, and now its so ingrained that everyone uses it and recordings. Hell using voice chat was a big thing back in the day.

USL was a bit campy at times in the long past also, especially on KR where it just seemed like you were running around the map forever trying to find someone. I think thats just the way people used to play back in the day, and now you can't camp because of a camp timer which does speed up the game overall. The player and skill dynamics shifted over time as individuals got better and learned maps, etc. There isnt enough influx of newer players to learn the game and populate the leagues either. I do like how the recent class changes and additions in USL, perhaps a bit more fine tuning or more classes will help as I am sure the diehards are probably bored with 28? continuous seasons.

Back to my topic, I would like to see a revitalized SL with more rules and perhaps unlimited lives instead. I do think that 3 deaths does make you think a bit more strategically, but most of the later year matches squads would just spawn camp the respawned players and just kill them off that way. Perhaps re-introducing it would be something to do in the offseason to see how it takes, even if just to keep people engaged and playing the game. We have a good population every Sunday sometimes I see 100+ players watching matches. Even Evos matches we get about 50-60 people watching at a time. Some of these people aren't even on squads for whatever reason, but perhaps could be a way to get those players involved again.

I’d like to see “Total damage” added on ?breakdown and maybe top 3 for damage if that’s possible

That wont happen, too many "good players" will get exposed

@FlyMolo - I've been advocating for that for two seasons now.

At one point MP told me that Jovan had been notified of the request and they were looking into adding that category. I needed it because statistics data really needs that data point to have any kind of realistic ratings formula that takes into account how active you were on offense generally.

I'll need to renew that request because I think it's a vital number for us to have access to.