The spread and bullet speed are identical to SL Ripper. I think USL does a tad more dmg now though. USL Ripper can hold 500 ammo too I think, opposed to 300 in SL.

So there are differences.

I feel like Ripper's problem is close to LMG's problem in that both have long reloads so if you don't shoot your whole clip and get the reload over with, you screw yourself.

Lmg can move and shoot, ripper cant, that by itself is a major disadvantage, ripper is also slower? Longer clip, no misfire or quicker reload would be something I’d like to see. Two laws on any class sounds a little OP.

I think the move speed thing for ripper was changed to be the same as other classes. But I could be wrong.

Pretty sure, if not very close to marine now.

Movement speed is the same, but maybe give it a slight boost.. maybe sapper too?

The settings are close to SL, but the bullets are a lot tighter in SL still I feel like. USL is still so spread, same problem with old LMG just kidn of sprays everywhere. And yeah move shoot 10 bullets and then reload. Wait 10 seconds to reload and then you're probably already streamed or have to give up position.

simplicity is best most of the time, but I think we need to change it up a little bit.

If we can manage to make anything viable besides rine/lmg/med it will be a win.

i like the nader ideas Chris

In general, I think we should change the rules to only allow 1 or 2 at the absolute max of any non-medic/marine classes. These classes should be made to be on the same power level as marine if not more when used on certain maps or certain terrains. The meta would change to what "super class/classes" is a squad running. LMG from last season fits the "super class" role perfectly.



- Rippers can carry 2 LAWs and always spawn with 2.
good , ripper could also use more range/ammo/no reload, shorter reload, or bigger clip
- Nader gets a choice between 2 GL attachments. 1 is a poison grenade that creates an area of effect on the ground that does ticking damage for enemies standing it. Mostly for defending chokes. The other is a fire attachment that puts a ticking dot on the enemy similar to inferno projector/incin nades.
too big of a change, we just need same utility old nader had - cazzo nader is perfect , combines old nader + bouncing
- Nader GL shoots a lot farther similar to the CTF GL.
too big of a change
- Sapper gets unlimited demos but they're on a longer cooldown.
good, but sapper could also spawn with laws/and or get 2 laws
- Explosive shotgun and incin removed from sapper but they get a PDW or Pistol.
too big of a change - as much as i personally would love pdw i would put focus on the demos (shorten the reload -10 sec universal reload like cazzo etc)
- Sniper gets stealth coating that makes them invisible only on the radar and a sprint that lasts 2-3 seconds on a long reload.
changes the dynamic of radar and leading too much
- Sniper gets secondary ammo (10 shots?) that does less damage than a normal snipe but it prevents healing on that target for 3-5 seconds.
can't really be done without changing a ton of stuff on way heals work for usl - i do think sniper needs love , especially in the close range as neg suggested - and I would point to the Cazzo changes (sniper rifle gets universal reload instead of normal)
- Command class that has limited summon uses. Maybe a sergeant type class that has a chain sword and battle rifle.
too big of a change, completely changes the league




Here's additional changes I would like to suggest that go along with the "super class" idea, some I touched on already.

1) Grenadier gets the same grenade launcher as Cazzo Forge. For those that aren't away of what this GL is... It is a GL that is identical in arch and reload and damage as the GL of old days (when Elsdragon was first introduced) but also allows the grenades to bounce HOWEVER after the grenade bounces they lose some of their potency and do around 50-70 damage on average. If the grenade hits a player before it bounces, it has a high chance of 1 hit killing like old days. It's the perfect compromise to beefing grenadier without changing how it has normally functioned the last 20 years.

2) Sapper gains and spawns with 2 laws. Sapper demo is on a 10 second UNIVERSAL reload. Demos are either unlimited or greatly increased to 8-10 carry range. For those do not understand normal vs universal reload... A normal reload is when your AR is on reload, it will not reload until you stop firing any weapon for 4 continuous seconds. If you use shotgun while your AR is on reload, the reload time will not begin until you stop firing your shotgun. This is how AR currently functions. A universal reload means that when your AR runs out of ammo, it goes into reload and will go out of reload exactly 4 seconds later - you can fire a grenade/shotgun/knife/law without hurting he reload time. In sapper terms, if you ever notice your demos reloading for an ungodly long time, it is because you have used another weapon and restarted the reload time.

3) Assault Trooper gains Shotgun. AT is in a pretty good place right now but there is one obvious weakness and that is that if you don't finish an enemy after your clip, you are left extremely vulnerable. Gaining shotgun helps eliminate this weakness in close quarter situations and makes Assault Trooper a much more deadly rushing/building option.

4) Sniper's Sniper Rifle gets reload time changed to Universal Reload time instead of Normal. This change has actually been active in Cazzo Forge for a very long time. This does not allow you to fire your sniper rifle any faster but what it does do is allow you to switch to your PDW and then back to your Sniper Rifle much easier. It is a small change that doesn't help sniper's long range game any but makes it much more helpful close to mid range as you can not switch from PDW to sniper much more easily. PDW still will be on a normal reload so it's not like you can change each unlimited. Test it out in Cazzo Forge to understand it.

4) Ripper gains more range. Ripper has reload shortened to 2 seconds instead of 4 seconds. Ripper gains 2 laws. Ripper gets 750 ammo instead of 500. All these changes simply help aid to how ripper is currently being used. I've used it pretty extensively lately and I can tell you it's pretty well balanced on the more open maps and with a leader who knows how to lead with one.


The biggest benefit to these changes I listed is that none are brand new concepts that require extensive testing or editor work. These changes should boost the support classes to the current LMG strength and make them viable options. There's no gas grenades or summoning, etc. The 2 law change is the hardest thing to make work and mizz or myself can make the script for that in 5 minutes or less.

Wow, very cool, Octavian! Great ideas and input!

just add a bunch of hero classes and rename the game to overpay

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